Lunaran submitted a new resource:
Copper - A Singleplayer Refinement Mod for QUAKE
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Copper - A Singleplayer Refinement Mod for QUAKE
Read more about this resource...
- Thread starter Lunaran
- Start date
Lunaran updated Copper with a new update entry:
Version 1.20 Now Available
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Version 1.20 Now Available
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Lunaran updated Copper with a new update entry:
Version 1.30, the Nightmare Update, is here
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Version 1.30, the Nightmare Update, is here
Read the rest of this update entry...
Congratz on the release of the new version, Lunaran!
Hmm, I'm a bit worried about this particular change:
"Zombies never permanently die"
Taken from the mod's official website:
"Zombies always come back to life, even when gibbed with explosives. Keep the axe ready, and don't spend more time around them than you have to. Zombies only contribute to the kill count once, and come back more pallid-looking to help you tell the difference. But you can spare another grenade for some peace and quiet, can't you?"
Isn't that a bit annoying? Having to always deal with them when you need to backtrack, even if you can just use the Axe against them. In Hexen, for instance, it's always a pain in the ass having to kill respawning monsters, regardless if they are just fodder enemies or not.
I haven't had the chance to test the new version yet, so I can't form a proper opinion, but I thought I would share my concern regardless.
Happy Halloween!
Hmm, I'm a bit worried about this particular change:
"Zombies never permanently die"
Taken from the mod's official website:
"Zombies always come back to life, even when gibbed with explosives. Keep the axe ready, and don't spend more time around them than you have to. Zombies only contribute to the kill count once, and come back more pallid-looking to help you tell the difference. But you can spare another grenade for some peace and quiet, can't you?"
Isn't that a bit annoying? Having to always deal with them when you need to backtrack, even if you can just use the Axe against them. In Hexen, for instance, it's always a pain in the ass having to kill respawning monsters, regardless if they are just fodder enemies or not.
I haven't had the chance to test the new version yet, so I can't form a proper opinion, but I thought I would share my concern regardless.
Happy Halloween!
Yes. Enjoy!
You don't have to kill them every time, and you shouldn't. The kill is counted the first time, so your completionist urge can be satiated by killing them once, after which it's up to you if you think it's worth another rocket to get them off your back. It's nightmare, after all.
Love Copper and I really like the Nightmare changes in 1.30, with the exception of Zombies coming back to life – or perhaps it is unlife? – which I find really annoying. So much so that I think I'll settle for Hard in maps with Zombies.
I like or at least don't mind almost every change made in Copper, but I hate the immortal zombies in 1.30 too. They're so annoying and uninteresting that I don't play on nightmare anymore either when using this mod. I hope they become mortal again in the next version.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who hates them.
Zombies coming back to life: nobody will prevent you from changing the source code of Copper QC in your local copy, In fact, the change is very simple.
One very small change is required in one file.
Then you need to compile progs.dat and maybe csprogs.dat with fteqcc. The QC source is included in Copper's zip file.
One very small change is required in one file.
Then you need to compile progs.dat and maybe csprogs.dat with fteqcc. The QC source is included in Copper's zip file.
Would you say that dealing with them is a... Nightmare?
Hmm, I don't think that's a good reason for having respawning zombies, just for being a nightmare to deal with (even if you don't have to kill them). The other Copper Nightmare changes, for instance, made the game harder, not more annoying.
That's just my take on it, of course.
I disagree, mostly because it forces you to keep moving, and makes Zombies a more interesting threat. As they are, as soon as you get a GL they're really just roadblocks, but with this change you can't always rely on instantly-killing them to progress you actually have to think about your positioning and how you'll deal with them at a later point. It adds a new skill of routing and risk/reward to Quake that you don't see elsewhere, which I think is a very interesting wrinkle, and is better than just giving them more health / making their projectiles do more damage / making them faster / whatever other 'meh' Nightmare mechanics you'd add to them otherwise.
I respect the opinion that it can be annoying, but it can be argued that other changes are equally as 'annoying', like the ultra-fast knights, the alternate Hell Knight attack, and the Voreball changes.
I respect the opinion that it can be annoying, but it can be argued that other changes are equally as 'annoying', like the ultra-fast knights, the alternate Hell Knight attack, and the Voreball changes.
As I implied before, I like the new nightmare zombies. I won't entirely oppose myself to changing them because I liked nightmare before 1.30 and now I much prefer the new version, but I have to agree with fw in not seeing a clear way to improve it. Yes they're annoying, but I think what people tend to forget is that every Quake enemy is annoying until it's normal. What matters more to me is whether it's interesting - resulting in unique player experiences and encouraging skill-based play - and I think it does achieve that.
I just played UDOB in Nightmare and although I enjoyed it greatly, I agree that the zombies respawning is really annoying. Especially when you have completed a level and would like to find the remaining secrets.
If there ever was a new update to Copper, if the option to definitely kill zombies was given with some of these suggestions:
- a console toggle to disable zombies respawning in Nightmare
or (better fit current design intent):
- Quad damage always definitely kill zombies
- zombies always respawn only once. After that, they can optionally be killed definitely with one of these (exclusive):
* with any weapon that gib them. This solution requires precious ammo, thus become a trade-off whether you want to dedicate ammo for that purpose
* only with the axe. More lenient than above as it does not require ammo but a greater risk with engaging zombies in melee
And then there are the homing Vore missiles that in Nightmare absolutely require cover when engaging Vores. I understand why this change was done for Nightmare, but it contradicts:
In Nightmare, it is rare that you can engage a Vore fast enough for it to not have time to fire missile, or that is has fired missile(s) but you kill it before the missiles hit you. Maybe I would tone a bit the indredibly good homing precision of these missiles in Nightmare, giving player more options to escape them.
If there ever was a new update to Copper, if the option to definitely kill zombies was given with some of these suggestions:
- a console toggle to disable zombies respawning in Nightmare
or (better fit current design intent):
- Quad damage always definitely kill zombies
- zombies always respawn only once. After that, they can optionally be killed definitely with one of these (exclusive):
* with any weapon that gib them. This solution requires precious ammo, thus become a trade-off whether you want to dedicate ammo for that purpose
* only with the axe. More lenient than above as it does not require ammo but a greater risk with engaging zombies in melee
And then there are the homing Vore missiles that in Nightmare absolutely require cover when engaging Vores. I understand why this change was done for Nightmare, but it contradicts:
In Nightmare, it is rare that you can engage a Vore fast enough for it to not have time to fire missile, or that is has fired missile(s) but you kill it before the missiles hit you. Maybe I would tone a bit the indredibly good homing precision of these missiles in Nightmare, giving player more options to escape them.
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yeah that's technically a bug, should be monster_fish, but isn't one that really affects anything. that bit of code should make it so fish completely ignore copper's "slime/lava damages enemies" feature, but fish also get immunity from the code which gives enemies immunity to slime/lava if they spawn within slime/lava for as long as they stay within it
so if you start a fish outside of slime/lava, or have them leave slime/lava and return to it, you can technically make them take damage from those liquids... but you'd need to place slime/lava a couple units apart from water for fish to swim between (original qbsp used to error if different liquid types were adjacent/overlapping... ericw's qbsp seems to just merge them into a single liquid type) or i guess push them with a mover... but that's a lot of effort just to fry a fish
so if you start a fish outside of slime/lava, or have them leave slime/lava and return to it, you can technically make them take damage from those liquids... but you'd need to place slime/lava a couple units apart from water for fish to swim between (original qbsp used to error if different liquid types were adjacent/overlapping... ericw's qbsp seems to just merge them into a single liquid type) or i guess push them with a mover... but that's a lot of effort just to fry a fish
Hi, I was just wondering when 1.35 would officially be released. I'm wanting to use it to play different mods since it has bug fixes and qol improvements since the 1.30 release.