Copper

[Lunaran]

Lunaran submitted a new resource:

Copper - A Singleplayer Refinement Mod for QUAKE

Copper is meant to be "Vanilla+", targeted at being a drop-in improvement to stock /id1/ gameplay and an equally suitable basis for new mods. It neither adds nor replaces any items, weapons, or monsters. I wanted to instead polish Quake's existing gameplay the way id might have if they'd taken the time to do so, to improve its depth and clarity as much as possible.

Read more about this resource...

 

[Lunaran]

Lunaran updated Copper with a new update entry:

Version 1.20 Now Available

Copper has gotten a tremendous maintenance release. Notable bugfixes:

• Toggling func_walls crashing large maps
• Nailgun aim angle not quite matching the crosshair
• Fiends not leap-attacking aggressively enough
• Trigger-spawned scrags disappearing if they had a "wait" or "rand" spawn delay and were sufficiently low above a func_void
• A bunch of half-baked problems with shootable monster_boss like firing targets on death or crashing the game when infighting
• All that text...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[tst]

Is there any difference between skill 2 and 3 apart from reduced max hp?

 

[h4724]

Is there any difference between skill 2 and 3 apart from reduced max hp?

Nope!

http://lunaran.com/copper/changes/#skill-levels

 

[Lunaran]

Lunaran updated Copper with a new update entry:

Version 1.30, the Nightmare Update, is here

Copper's biggest drop since the Cooperative Update makes some significant changes:

• Nightmare difficulty has been wholly revamped. The 50 max HP nerf is gone, and in its place are mean, mean bespoke upgrades to every monster that enhance them in their roles. Vorepods follow you to the ends of the earth, Zombies never permanently die, and even Rotfish are deadly.
• Alkaline has one, Arcane Dimensions has one, and now Copper has a custom CSQC-based heads up display, too. Classic and...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Muleke_Trairao]

Congratz on the release of the new version, Lunaran!

Hmm, I'm a bit worried about this particular change:

"Zombies never permanently die"

Taken from the mod's official website:

"Zombies always come back to life, even when gibbed with explosives. Keep the axe ready, and don't spend more time around them than you have to. Zombies only contribute to the kill count once, and come back more pallid-looking to help you tell the difference. But you can spare another grenade for some peace and quiet, can't you?"

Isn't that a bit annoying? Having to always deal with them when you need to backtrack, even if you can just use the Axe against them. In Hexen, for instance, it's always a pain in the ass having to kill respawning monsters, regardless if they are just fodder enemies or not.
I haven't had the chance to test the new version yet, so I can't form a proper opinion, but I thought I would share my concern regardless.

Happy Halloween!

 

[h4724]

Isn't that a bit annoying?

Yes. Enjoy!

You don't have to kill them every time, and you shouldn't. The kill is counted the first time, so your completionist urge can be satiated by killing them once, after which it's up to you if you think it's worth another rocket to get them off your back. It's nightmare, after all.

 

[arkngt]

Love Copper and I really like the Nightmare changes in 1.30, with the exception of Zombies coming back to life – or perhaps it is unlife? – which I find really annoying. So much so that I think I'll settle for Hard in maps with Zombies.

 

[BrokenSymmetry]

I like or at least don't mind almost every change made in Copper, but I hate the immortal zombies in 1.30 too. They're so annoying and uninteresting that I don't play on nightmare anymore either when using this mod. I hope they become mortal again in the next version.

 

[Muleke_Trairao]

Love Copper and I really like the Nightmare changes in 1.30, with the exception of Zombies coming back to life – or perhaps it is unlife? – which I find really annoying. So much so that I think I'll settle for Hard in maps with Zombies.

I like or at least don't mind almost every change made in Copper, but I hate the immortal zombies in 1.30 too. They're so annoying and uninteresting that I don't play on nightmare anymore either when using this mod. I hope they become mortal again in the next version.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who hates them.

 

[j4r]

Zombies coming back to life: nobody will prevent you from changing the source code of Copper QC in your local copy, In fact, the change is very simple.
One very small change is required in one file.

Then you need to compile progs.dat and maybe csprogs.dat with fteqcc. The QC source is included in Copper's zip file.

 

[Fairweather]

I like or at least don't mind almost every change made in Copper, but I hate the immortal zombies in 1.30 too. They're so annoying and uninteresting that I don't play on nightmare anymore either when using this mod. I hope they become mortal again in the next version.

Would you say that dealing with them is a... Nightmare?

 

[Muleke_Trairao]

Would you say that dealing with them is a... Nightmare?

Hmm, I don't think that's a good reason for having respawning zombies, just for being a nightmare to deal with (even if you don't have to kill them). The other Copper Nightmare changes, for instance, made the game harder, not more annoying.

That's just my take on it, of course.

 

[Fairweather]

I disagree, mostly because it forces you to keep moving, and makes Zombies a more interesting threat. As they are, as soon as you get a GL they're really just roadblocks, but with this change you can't always rely on instantly-killing them to progress you actually have to think about your positioning and how you'll deal with them at a later point. It adds a new skill of routing and risk/reward to Quake that you don't see elsewhere, which I think is a very interesting wrinkle, and is better than just giving them more health / making their projectiles do more damage / making them faster / whatever other 'meh' Nightmare mechanics you'd add to them otherwise.
I respect the opinion that it can be annoying, but it can be argued that other changes are equally as 'annoying', like the ultra-fast knights, the alternate Hell Knight attack, and the Voreball changes.

 

[h4724]

As I implied before, I like the new nightmare zombies. I won't entirely oppose myself to changing them because I liked nightmare before 1.30 and now I much prefer the new version, but I have to agree with fw in not seeing a clear way to improve it. Yes they're annoying, but I think what people tend to forget is that every Quake enemy is annoying until it's normal. What matters more to me is whether it's interesting - resulting in unique player experiences and encouraging skill-based play - and I think it does achieve that.

 

[Muleke_Trairao]

I disagree, mostly because it forces you to keep moving, and makes Zombies a more interesting threat. As they are, as soon as you get a GL they're really just roadblocks, but with this change you can't always rely on instantly-killing them to progress you actually have to think about your positioning and how you'll deal with them at a later point. It adds a new skill of routing and risk/reward to Quake that you don't see elsewhere, which I think is a very interesting wrinkle, and is better than just giving them more health / making their projectiles do more damage / making them faster / whatever other 'meh' Nightmare mechanics you'd add to them otherwise.
I respect the opinion that it can be annoying, but it can be argued that other changes are equally as 'annoying', like the ultra-fast knights, the alternate Hell Knight attack, and the Voreball changes.

That's a fair opinion. Thanks, Fairweather!